Episode 128: Building Profitable Relationships with Dov Gordon – Transcript

Episode 128: Building Profitable Relationships with Dov Gordon

Rennie Gabriel  00:09
Hi folks, welcome to episode 128 of the Wealth On Any Income Podcast. This is where we talk about money tips, techniques, attitudes, information, and provide inspiration around your business and your money. I'm your host, Rennie Gabriel. In past episodes, we spoke about how to understand the numbers from your business, how to measure the level of pleasure based on where you spend your money, how to track your money in 5 to 10 seconds, what determines how close you are to Complete Financial Choice®, and how to run your business without being in your business. Last week, we had Sarah St John, an entrepreneur, online course creator, author and host of the Frugalpreneur Podcast - Building a Business on a Bootstrapped Budget. Today, we have as our guest, Dov Gordon. Dov leads the Joint Venture Mastermind Group, a network for thought leaders who serve small business owners. If the best business is one where you get paid to do what you do anyway, for free, then Dov is lucky indeed, as he actually ran JVMM for free for eight years before turning it into a business. And hopefully he doesn't mind my saying, I was one of the people who talked him into doing that. 

Dov Gordon  01:35
I was about to say it. 

Rennie Gabriel  01:37
Okay, thank you Dov.

Dov Gordon  01:39
I believe in giving credit where credit is due. 

Rennie Gabriel  01:41
Well, and the last time you were on my show was early on, it was July 2021, so that's a year and a half ago, and I'm so glad to have you back. So Dov, welcome to the Wealth On Any Income Podcast.

Dov Gordon  01:56
Thanks for having me, again.

Rennie Gabriel  01:58
You got it. And so we're going to get to some questions here. So, you lead what I consider to be the best mastermind group I've ever participated in. But tell me why you do what you do? 

Dov Gordon  02:13
Well, just to, as I said, as you said, in the introduction, I was running this group for free for about eight years. And that was because I was looking to reach small business owners. And the way we were doing that was by collaborating with other people who were also looking to reach small business owners using online direct marketing. So building an email list, an audience, social media audience, as well, and these are people, bringing together people who understand that there will always be more people in my audience who will not buy it from me, then there will be people who will buy it from me. And yet, all those people will sign up for my emails, they'll watch my webinars, they'll interact on social media, because they're looking for something. They're looking for something and they may, maybe they're not looking for me, but they're actually looking for you or for Bob, or Jane, or whoever. And when I can introduce you or someone else to my audience, it gives that person the chance to realize like, Oh, yeah, I was looking for somebody, but I was drawn to what Dov's doing. But it turns out that what you're doing, Bob, or Rennie, or whoever, that's really interesting, and that might be a great fit. So that's what we were doing. Because when you do it that way, it's win, win, win. Everybody wins. Your audience members win, because we're all on a search for something, we're all looking for something, and we're not all going to resonate with everybody equally. And that's part of the beauty of this, is that we all have something slightly or very unique to bring, and we really want to try to help people find those who are best for them. So that's what the JVMM is - it's like bringing such people together. And then, probably about three and a half years ago, about three and a half years ago, I started to realize that, you know, we'd grown from 5 people to about 200. And I realized, I need to know who really wants to be here because it was a big group and I realized that some people were active and some people were not. And I realized I probably need to start charging something. And I hesitated - I was afraid because I had some great people in the group. You know, it started from from nothing and many of the members in the group are people who I put on a pedestal in my mind is like, you know why would even want to talk to me now they were members in my community? So I was afraid of losing these great relationships. And what you know, over a four or five, six months, I just had private conversations with, you know, maybe half a dozen, a dozen members, including yourself. And you said something to me that I'll never forget. I don't remember what my reservation was - I don't remember what I said. But then you said to me, you said that one of the things that makes the group unique the JVMM unique is that people are really generous, they're givers. And I don't remember what my, my fear was that I'm not I wasn't adding . . . 

Rennie Gabriel  05:00
Do you want me to tell you what your fear was? 

Dov Gordon  05:01
Okay, go on, what was it?

Rennie Gabriel  05:03
That you enjoyed the opportunity to, let's say be on their podcast or for them to promote you, because they were participants in the mastermind for free. And you were afraid if you charge for it, they wouldn't promote you anymore.

Dov Gordon  05:18
Okay. That's right. That's right. Or, yeah I remember now, right. Yeah, I was afraid that that, okay, there's this generosity going on, and if I start charging, maybe . . . It wasn't, it was, it was me, but it wasn't just me. But yeah, like, what, what am I bringing, really, if not that? And you said something to the effect of well, actually, you know, that you've been part of many communities or a number of communities, and the people in this community in JVMM are very generous and givers and happy to share. And you attributed that to me, just as like the way I was, the way I run it, and treat people. And I appreciated hearing that, because you really helped me recognize that, you know I never thought of myself as like, any kind of role model, and still really don't. But you just helped me realize that I was having a certain influence, and I knew it created something unique, but you really helped me understand what that uniqueness was to help to see an important aspect of it that I hadn't seen before. And that was a big piece of what gave me the confidence to start charging. And I don't charge a lot of money. It's not, it's very reasonable amount. It's a lot less than a lot of other comparable things that maybe perhaps are less valuable. But you know, it's something that works. But then over the last few years, we've continued to grow, you know, I was afraid to go from, you know, almost 200 members down to 10. But we went to I think was 45. And then we continue to grow, almost all from, all new members essentially come from introductions from existing members. So that's, you know, that's fantastic. Good people bring more good people. And as we were continuing to grow and grow, I realized, you know, we're getting to 80, 90, 100, 120, and I'm thinking, what if I make this my main thing? You know, I'm not personally looking to, you know, scale to seven figures and so on. Now, I've got more modest aims, mid six figures and some time. And I realized, well, what if I phase out my own coaching business and focus on JVMM make that my main thing? And again, I went through a process of fear, like, wait, you know, how do I know, I don't know if you know, I didn't see how JVMM could generate the revenue that I'm looking for. I don't want to grow it endlessly. I don't want to add, you know, hundreds of hundreds of members. It's not what I'm looking for. But then I also discussed that with some people and took a leap, another leap, and the leap was phasing out my coaching business. I still work with people individually. If someone shows up, but I don't organize and promote any group programs anymore, which was, which was what I was doing. And early 2022, like the end of the first quarter, I phased out the last group program that I had. And now you know JVMM is my main thing. You know, we're profitablerelationships.com. That's where we're found. So once I now had free time to focus just on members of JVMM, so I started scheduling calls with members. I hadn't talked to a lot of members in a while because I've been busy, and getting to know members better and hearing what people needed. And at some point, before I made the final decision, I realized, oh, look, there's got to be a way. Like if I can get back to 200, 250 members, max, because I don't want more than that. There's got to be a way that I can hit my numbers. Maybe some people will pay a little more for something. And I realized, you know, and as a consequence of that, we now have two peer groups within.. optional peer coaching groups - within JVMM. One is for seven-figure businesses, and we even have a couple of eight-figure business owners, and the other is for six-figure business owners. And that's, it's a much, these are much smaller groups as people who are, you know, saying yes to, they want to be part of this. And that gives me, that gives me an additional thing to offer and to focus on and to bring that coaching skillset to. So I will not completely just walking away from that. Yeah, this is slowly but surely that's moving along. So that's the evolution. So I think you asked me what do I do and why and I just enjoy, you know, I really, like I said, I really am blessed I think you know, it was the best business is the one you do for free. Never intended or never expected this to be a source of revenue, let alone my main business. But that's where it's developed. And I just really enjoy the conversations. I always learn something, share when I have something to share.

Rennie Gabriel  09:34
You've got those meetings where they're members who are experts in certain areas and they share their information. I think you call it the brain trust meeting. Like you know, recently Joe Applebaum shared what he does using ChatGBT connected to LinkedIn and some other things. And while it kind of like moved my brain to the point where it could explode, I realized, oh my gosh, the things that are out there that are amazing, the shortcuts, the ability to interact with people and create real relationships and not spend all of your time doing that. You got folks like that. Is Jay Fiset still a member? Yeah. So here's a person in your mastermind who has a program called Mastermind to Millions. And he's participating in your mastermind. And so anyway, the people that I've met, I'm just thrilled with.

Dov Gordon  10:34
Yeah, because we serve different slices of the market. And Jay is a wonderful person, you know, generous giver, he also was another key person who when I was making that leap to decide to charge and he definitely encouraged me. He's a good person doing good work. And we each bring something different and serve a different type of member. So very complimentary.

Rennie Gabriel  10:58
Yeah. And because I donate 100% of the profit from my books and programs, the work I do to various animal and veteran charities, all my guests are also philanthropic in some way. And I know there are causes that you support. Tell me about one of them.

Dov Gordon  11:15
We have some some local organizations in our community who help people who need it. And that's it. You know, there's sometimes they give groceries, sometimes there'll be, you know, coupons to buy groceries or counseling, career counseling, helping people get back on their own feet, depending on what they need, marriage counseling, help the kids, help with homework, various services that people can benefit from. That's, where mostly, where our charity goes - local.

Rennie Gabriel  11:50
Yeah, well, a local adds up to global.

Dov Gordon  11:53

Rennie Gabriel  11:54
And . . .

Dov Gordon  11:55
It's really, if we all just keep our own front steps clean, right? The world would be clean.

Rennie Gabriel  12:01
Exactly. And we've all had struggles in business, I have, you have. Tell me about maybe the most impactful business failure you had and what insight you gained from it.

Dov Gordon  12:15
I don't know if I've had any like, you know, like, total catastrophes, fortunately. Like I've never declared bankruptcy, fortunately, or which I know is part of your your history. More than once.

Rennie Gabriel  12:27
I didn't declare it. But that's where I was. Yes. 

Dov Gordon  12:30
Yeah. Okay. And so but I did have, had certainly have some, some ups and downs. And one of the ones that always stands out for me is the first time I tried to do an online launch. You know, I spent three months preparing, building. I didn't know what I was getting into. I thought I did, but I didn't. And we've all had that experience. And then, you know, at the end of the day, I had one person buy the program that I was selling. One person, one person paid $750 and then I had to run it. I wasn't going to not run it, because one of the things that, one of the lessons I learned is keep moving. You just keep moving forward. So I was going to run the program. So I also invited a few other people to join as my guests. I didn't say, Hey, I've got you know, but there was some a couple of people, a few people who for various reasons, I felt that they would benefit and they take it seriously. And I you know, quietly invited them to join. So the person who paid you know, had a good experience with a few other quality people. Yeah, so that was very disappointing. But at the same time, it was a really good lesson. You know, as soon as I hung up, we were doing teleseminars back then, that was before Zoom. As soon as I hung up, I remembered, I suddenly realized, like things clicked and advice people have given me along the way suddenly made sense. Because it's really interesting that - and that's why it's so important to just keep moving forward as you don't wait till you're ready. Don't wait till you have everything lined up. The advice that people will give you often you can't fully understand it if you're not yet at the place, where were your experience meets their advice, if that makes any sense, right? They say that the student you know, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear and I think that often it's the student, that the teacher is standing there just waiting for the student to look up. 

Rennie Gabriel  14:29

Dov Gordon  14:30
The teacher has been there all along. And that's how it is very often in life. So yeah, it was it was a really good experience, painful but really good experience. And, you know, fortunately, you know, got up the next morning and kept moving. 

Rennie Gabriel  14:48
And here we are today. 

Dov Gordon  14:49
That's right. That's what life is all about. And you know, today look, again, you know, things are, there's always another challenge. You know, there's always another challenge. I talk, you know, there's different ways, I talk to members all the time, almost every day I'm talking to members to listen to hear what they're dealing with, their ideas, their feedback. When you're dealing with people, it's, it's messy, to some degree, it's also joyful. And it's frustrating and it's rewarding and it's baffling. Right? 

Rennie Gabriel  15:17
Yeah. All of those. Yes. 

Dov Gordon  15:18
Yeah, it's all of those. Not smooth, or it's certainly not as smooth as we'd like it to be. But you know, what I have to remind myself is that, hey, this is an opportunity, like you get..  The goal isn't to wake up one day and have nothing to do and nowhere to go and no demands. The goal is to get up every day and say, How can I serve? How can I do a little better than yesterday? What can I contribute to? I tend to, you know, have to remind myself that I can't be responsible for solving every problem for everybody. That's not my role. You know, I know some some people like me, and I'm sure many others, so I'll mention in case it's someone listening. Know that you don't have to solve everything. You just have to get up and do a good job. Just focus on today, the next hour, the next minute, the next five minutes. You can't control other people's decisions, you can control your decisions, your actions, and we got to focus on what we can control. So that's how I see it. 

Rennie Gabriel  16:11
Beautiful, thank you. 

Dov Gordon  16:12
And remind myself because I forgot too.

Rennie Gabriel  16:14
Yeah, we all need to remind ourselves of various things. So thank you for that. And what would be the best link for people to learn about you or to learn about the mastermind?

Dov Gordon  16:27
Well, we're a profitablerelationships.com. That's where, you know, anyone who might be relevant or curious to see what JVMM is all about. Or our Simplicity Six, and Simplicity Seven groups. But I'd be happy if people would like to get a free copy of my manual called, How to Systematically and Consistently Attract First Rate Clients. I sold that for five years for $97 and now we give it away for free. So that's at profitablerelationships.com/themanual. And if anybody's in a business where you try to get clients, I think it'll open your eyes to a level of clarity about really how to simplify whatever it is you're doing in that area, and focus on that critical 10% that gives you 90% of what you want. So profitablerelationships.com/themanual.

Rennie Gabriel  17:12
Thank you. And I'll have that in the show notes. So people can just click on that, and get the information and you know what you're providing, Dov, I want to thank you for being on the show, again. Thank you so much. 

Dov Gordon  17:26
Thank you again.

Rennie Gabriel  17:28
You're welcome. And for anyone listening, if you'd like to know how books, movies and Society programs you to be poor, and what the cure is, then log on to wealthonanyincome.com/TEDx, you'll hear my TEDx talk and can request a free 9-Step Roadmap to Complete Financial Choice® and Philanthropy, along with an explanation of each of those 9 steps. And you could also receive a weekly email with tips, techniques, or inspiration around your business, or your money. And if you'd like to see how you can increase your wealth, and donate to the causes that touch your heart, please check out our affordable program, Wealth with Purpose, on the Wealth On Any Income website. To my listeners, thank you for tuning in. You can listen to the Wealth On Any Income Podcast on your favorite platform. And please rate, review and subscribe. Until next week, be prosperous. Bye bye for now.

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