Episode 93: Getting To Know Your M.O.M. with Podcast Expert Doug Sandler – Transcript

Wealth On Any Income Podcast Episode 93

Rennie Gabriel  00:10
Hi folks, welcome to Episode 93 of the Wealth On Any Income Podcast. This is where we talk about money tips, techniques, attitudes, information, and provide inspiration around your business and money. I'm your host, Rennie Gabriel. In past episodes, we spoke about how to understand the numbers from your business, how to measure the level of pleasure based on where you spend your money, how to track your money in 5 - 10 seconds, what determines how close you are to Complete Financial Choice®, and how to run your business without being in your business. And last week, we had Johnny Beirne, talking about how to use online technology to put your best foot forward with various programs and a green screen. Today we have as our guest, Doug Sandler. Doug is an entrepreneur and podcast industry leader. His book, Nice Guys Finish First, is a number one ranked Amazon Best Seller. As a podcast host of The Nice Guys on Business, Doug has interviewed Gary Vee, Arianna Huffington, John C. Maxwell, and dozens of celebrities. Doug is a nationally recognized speaker, writer and the founder of Turnkey Podcast Productions, which provides podcast production, editing, and launch services. His Nice Guy's Podcast, with over 1000 episodes, has been downloaded three and a half million times in more than 175 countries. And I know he really does a great job, because the only reason I have a podcast is because I learned how to do it from Doug. Doug, welcome to the Wealth On Any Income Podcast.

Doug Sandler  01:55
Hey, Rennie. Thank you for having me here. Big fan love, love your episodes. Love your show and love what you're doing with your wisdom, man. Appreciate you being here.

Rennie Gabriel  02:02
Thank you so much. Well, let's get right to it with some questions. You know, from your bio, we have a good idea of what you do. But how about telling me why?

Doug Sandler  02:13
Well, you know, I spent 30 years as a DJ, believe it or not, in the upper upwardly mobile high end social scene in Washington, DC. And after about 2500 gigs, I kind of got a little tired of it. You're not that I got tired of my market. I love my market. But I really wanted to have a greater impact in this world. And I thought, man, well, how can I bring my skills in the customer service world, and my skills behind a microphone as a DJ, and how can I bring those into another environment and help the world to get their message out to more people? And so podcasting was a really good fit. And my timing couldn't have been any better with everything that's going on in the world and more more and more people working remotely. That's why I did what I did. I just wanted to have a greater impact than I think, that I wasn't able to get in the party market but can get out of this market for sure.

Rennie Gabriel  03:05
Terrific. Is there a particular, well, I try to lead by example, as you mentioned. I do philanthropic work. I donate 100% of the profits from my online work and books, programs to charity. So I know there's a particular cause that you support. Tell me what it is and what do they do.

Doug Sandler  03:25
So I have another podcast actually called, Ford Mustang, The Early Years Podcast, and one of the things that I do with that podcast, and I have a fairly substantial listener base to that show, even though it's only specifically dealing with Ford Mustangs in that '64 and a half to '66 timeframe. 

Rennie Gabriel  03:41
I had one of those by the way. 

Doug Sandler  03:43
Oh, nice. So you were the original, probably the original owner, right? Like I had never owned one original even though I'm that age. I just never had one when I was a kid but always wanted one. And so one of the causes that is supported by that environment - in that industry - is a cause called, Cruise for a Cause. And it it's all about cancer research and cancer support. So as a part of that show, it's been able to, you know, help me to kind of donate money to that cause. There are many causes that I really respect and appreciate but that's probably one that's a little bit closer to me near and dear to me. A couple of family members that have been dealing with cancer in their past and I love to be able to at least put a couple of dollars back in in the into research and support.

Rennie Gabriel  04:27
Fabulous. Well, let's let's get back to business. Tell me who are your target markets for the work that you're doing.

Doug Sandler  04:36
So anyone that's looking for a creative way to market their business that is looking for business development, lead generation, podcasting is a great way to do that. Not only through the community that your message is going out to, but by the relationships that you're able to build from that, from that guest seat. I'm sure from those 90 some odd episodes you know soon to be 100 and then beyond for your show, you've probably built some really significant and wonderful relationships out of that guests seat, which has been the hidden gift all along that podcasting . . . I never expected that. So for me, that has been a true wealth of of knowledge, free coaching. I mean, I've got some major, major people in that guest seat that have given me free coaching, because they're sitting there answering the questions that I have that my community can just coincidentally get the answers to as well.

Rennie Gabriel  05:22
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I've created some wonderful relationships. I think it's next week, I'm actually having a venture capitalist on the podcast. I failed as an angel investor, because I didn't read the stuff he put out before I got involved. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And not only that, a lot of people are using their podcast to create clients for themselves, because that's the way they can create the relationship with people that they might not otherwise be able to reach.

Doug Sandler  05:51
100%. I mean, just think about this from a marketing perspective. If I were to say to you as a potential client, if you and I met on the street, and I discovered through a networking session that, Hey, you're, you're somebody that would actually be really the target for the services that I sell. I could easily pick up the phone or send you an email and say, Hey, Rennie, my name is Doug Sandler. I'm with Turnkey Podcast, we have this creative way to market your business. Would you be open to having a meeting with me to discuss that? Chances are probably better than not, that you are going to say, I appreciate your call, but no thanks. 

Rennie Gabriel  06:24

Doug Sandler  06:24
However, if I call you and say, Hey, Rennie, it's Doug Sandler from Turnkey Podcast, I have a podcast called The Nice Guys on Business, and I would love to share your story with my community - your story with my community - so they can hear a little bit more about what you're all about. Would you be open to spending a half hour with me to doing that? The chances are, yeah, he's going, yeah, Rennie's nodding. So yeah, of course. So for me, the relationship build is the primary . . . And I'm only asking that to people that I know potentially could be in my target strike zone for what I am selling. And to answer that question, I guess more directly, it's entrepreneurs, business owners, leaders, people that are looking for a creative way to to expand their their marketing through and business development through creative practices like podcasting.

Rennie Gabriel  07:12
Terrific. And now let's get to some, like, I'll call it intimate stuff. What would you say would have been your biggest failure, whether it was personal or business? 

Doug Sandler  07:22
Oh, wow. Okay, how many of them, can I, can I list?

Rennie Gabriel  07:25
We only have a 15-20 minute podcast. Just to let you know.

Doug Sandler  07:30
I tended to have been one of those people that wanted to micromanage and control everything. And that required a lot of extra effort. You know, I was I was in spreadsheets, I was doing accounting, I was doing all of the stuff within my business. And I found that the more I was doing that the busier I was getting, but the less successful that I was. It wasn't until the last few years and doing this business, Turnkey Podcast, it wasn't until I started to understand the relevancy of staying in your zone of genius, only doing the things that you are, that you excel at, that you're good at - building relationships, selling, sharing my services with others - but staying out of the things that I'm not good at and hiring people to do those things. So probably my failure, if you want to call it a failure, would probably be more like my scarcity of, 'Hey, I don't want to spend any money on that because that's something I probably could do on my own.' Sure, I could spend my time in a spreadsheet. Is that really the most effective use of my time? So, maybe not failure, but more a look at scarcity and, you know, lack of, lack of trust that I can put somebody in a position to do it, probably better than me.

Rennie Gabriel  08:39
Yeah. And it sounds like it was a learning experience. And the way I phrase it is that, you know, I can do what my assistant does, I could write the checks and input them into QuickBooks, and I pay her 35 bucks an hour. But when I'm working with clients, I'm getting $500 an hour. 

Doug Sandler  08:55

Rennie Gabriel  08:56
Why would I do $35 an hour work?

Doug Sandler  08:58
It doesn't, it doesn't make any sense. And yet, I built an entire career being the time equals, time equals dollars, but the harder I work, the more money I will make. And that's just not, you know, for those that are trying to you know - rental properties are the exact opposite of that. Let them passively do the work for you - and I know you got a bunch of those. So you appreciate and respect the idea of let . . . stay in the stuff that you do best, hire some somebody out to do to do the other stuff. And hey, if that means that you get to have an extra 40 hours back in your time to put towards family or put towards other projects or put towards something else that's in your zone of genius, great, but you can also not put that time into anything except yourself, and that's a good thing too.

Rennie Gabriel  09:41
Exactly. So are, would you say there is some typical feelings that your prospects experienced before they come to you?

Doug Sandler  09:50
I think it's an insecurity of where their next call is coming from. Oftentimes, is you know, from an entrepreneurs perspective, and I've always had boots-strapped businesses. I've not, never gone to venture capital. I've always invested in my own. I've never gone into debt for my business. And for me, it's always been the feeling of, where is that, how do I get that phone to ring? Why can't... why isn't that phone ringing? And then beyond that, when it came to podcasting, it's like, okay, well now, how do I actually get - because some people come to us with a podcast already launched. And they're like, 'Hey, I've been doing this for now two years, I'm not making any money. Am I doing the wrong stuff?' And sometimes it's just a matter of understanding the perspective, the way that you should be looking at where does opportunity come from in podcasting. It doesn't oftentimes come where you think it's going to come from. So that's my role as a podcast coach, and someone that helps people, guide people through the business strategy of building a podcast. Where exactly can I make money? Where can I build my community from? And how do I, how do I become an influencer in this space? And those are the strike zones of the things that we try to, you know, try to help our clients do.

Rennie Gabriel  10:58
That makes a lot of sense. Let me, let me have you expand on that. What would you say the common mistakes or problems are that your prospects face?

Doug Sandler  11:07
Well, I think a lot of times people right out of the gate, a lot of people hesitate to start a podcast, because the first thing they think is I just don't understand the technology that's behind it. Or I don't have, you know, a larger than life microphone personality to be able to interview people. Or I don't have a big wish list of people. Or maybe I'm not an expert in a specific space. And all of those are myths when it comes to podcasts. And you need to know relatively little about technology. You don't have to have a larger than life personality or charisma. You don't have to have any experience with a microphone. You don't have to have a big community coming into it. And Rennie's pointing at himself. Now I'm pointing at me when I was doing that too, because it was like - Man, why would a guy like Jeffrey Gitomer or John C. Maxwell or Arianna Huffington or Gary Vee want to, why would they want to have a conversation with me? I don't know what they know. I am just the catalyst to reach my community. Even if it's a community of five people. You know, we all get our head trash in the way and think nobody's going to want to come on my show when I have no audience. And that's really not the reality of it. So we teach people how to get out of their own way when it comes to those myths, and start understanding the truths of podcasting.

Rennie Gabriel  12:11
And all that you just reminded me of someone that I met in a small group, like six people, a guy named Mike Michalowicz, who wrote a book . . .

Doug Sandler  12:19
Profit First.

Rennie Gabriel  12:20
Exactly. And all of a sudden, through this conversation, I realized, from the conversations I've had with him, I have never asked him to be a guest on my show.

Doug Sandler  12:29
He was a he was a guest on The Nice Guys on Business years ago. He is a great guest. And he's very eager to want to be on your show, too. And he's got, you know, Profit First was a great book. And it is a way to understand, hey, pay yourself first before you do anything else. 

Rennie Gabriel  12:43
Exactly. I've been teaching that for decades.

Doug Sandler  12:46
Yeah, his book and his style really did change my life. And we and we've had a couple of conversations since then. So he's a great guy. I encourage you, it's funny that you brought him up because he is a good guy.

Rennie Gabriel  12:57
So that's going to be my next action items, invite him to my show. Let me ask you this, is there a valuable free resource that you can direct people to that will further support them?

Doug Sandler  13:09
Yeah, I think that if they're, if somebody's in your audience, and they say, 'Well, where do you make money from podcasting?' I would tell you to just, I have a free mini-course. They're welcome to have it. It's just at turnkeypodcast.com/gold - G O L D. And they can have a copy of it. It's a five-part mini course that teaches you exactly where the normal people like you and me, Rennie, make money podcasting. We are not Joe Rogan. We're not, we don't have 5 million downloads an episode, you know. The average, the average podcast gets less than 200 downloads per episode. So how do you make money from that? Well, that mini-course will teach you exactly where the money comes from in podcasting, if you're normal people like me. You're not Tony Robbins, or Joe Rogan, or you know, Tim Ferriss. We're just normal people.

Rennie Gabriel  13:56
Perfect. And so I'm going to make sure that's in the show notes. So people can just click on it and go right there. And is there a question that I should have asked you, that would also give some great value to those who are listening?

Doug Sandler  14:09
Wow, okay. That's a good one. Was there a question that you should ask me? You're, you're a wise man when it comes to podcasting. You know, as I said to you before, before you hit record, is that you have gone 5, 6x greater than most people go in the world of podcasting. If you get beyond your 10th episode, then chances are good that you're going to stay in this for the long run. Why 10? Well, 10 is at that point where you realize, 'Hey, I'm putting some effort into this. I'm putting my time in but I haven't yet seen the results.' And very similar to real estate investment or investing in the stock market, you may take a hit when you first invest, dollar cost averaging, you know. Keep putting money in. Keep putting time in at the same rate that you're putting it in. When the market goes lower you'll buy more. When the market buy goes higher, you'll buy a little bit less but if you keep putting in the same amount of money week in and week out, your investment will pay off in the long run. Podcasting is no different than investing in the stock market or real estate. If you go at it with the idea that this is a hobby, it will create a hobby result. If you go at it with the attitude that it will create a business result and treat it like a business, it absolutely will. You've just got to give it a little bit of time, but it will absolutely do that for you.

Rennie Gabriel  15:23
Thank you so much, Doug. And I agree with you completely because the first few years of our buying apartment buildings, I mean, if we had a plumbing bill that wiped out the profit, and it probably wasn't until the third year, where we could actually start to see the benefits of what we're doing. 

Doug Sandler  15:41
Well, we all live in an instant economy where we feel like if I put this in today, by tomorrow, I should have a result. And I would tell everybody, if you could be patient, you know don't, don't overextend yourself in order to do it. Look if it, if it ends up you know, you go full service on everything, and it cost you $5,000 to start a podcast, launch a podcast, buy the, you know, get all the latest and greatest - which you don't need to do. But if you go, and you put yourself in debt, you know what's going to happen every time you open up that microphone? You're going to be like, 'Oh my god, oh my God, oh, my God, I've got to get that $5,000 back.' 

Rennie Gabriel  16:17

Doug Sandler  16:17
I wouldn't, I wouldn't encourage you to do that with real estate. Like I wouldn't encourage you to do that with the investing in the stock market. Don't take your last dime and put it into podcasting. Once you have a little bit of clarity, and you know.

Doug Sandler  16:30
I understand. I call it getting to know your MOM, your Market, your Offering, your Message. If you know who your market is, you understand what your offer is, potentially, and you know how to message your words to be clear, you will excel at podcasting. If you don't know those things. I'm not saying don't start a podcast, but know that that's the first step - getting to know your MOM, your Market, your Offer and your Message. Beyond that it will work for you. You just got to be patient. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Rennie Gabriel  16:58
Yeah. And that is so powerful. That acronym is so accurate from the standpoint of if you don't know what your offer is, and you don't know who your market is, and what was the third M?

Doug Sandler  17:09
Message. Market. Offer.

Rennie Gabriel  17:11
If you can't message it, then, yeah, any business is going to struggle and doesn't matter if it's in podcasting or coaching or speaking - it doesn't make any difference.

Doug Sandler  17:20
Absolutely. Yeah, this isn't only relevant in the podcasting space. This is relevant in anything. How do you know? You know I had somebody that used this analogy yesterday when we were talking about podcasting, but it can apply to anything. You don't take 22 football players, you put them on a field and you give them a ball and just say go. They have lines, you know, they have goal lines on each side. They have sidelines that they can't go outside of. They have rules within the field. All of these things, you know, you can't have a successful podcast unless you understand where you are going. What is your goal for podcasts? It's not just create content. That's like giving the guy a football on the field and saying go. It doesn't happen that way. It's not successful that way.

Rennie Gabriel  18:04
Exactly. If it's just about creating content, you know, there's other ways to do it. 

Doug Sandler  18:09

Rennie Gabriel  18:10
Doug, thank you so much for what you provided for me so I can have this podcast. Thank you for being on my show.

Doug Sandler  18:18
Thank you, Rennie. And thank you for being such a good example of what someone that is waiting for success, being patient about it, understanding that it takes time and having the tenacity and the consistency of quality content out there. I've looked at your episode list. I've seen your guests, you've had quality guests. I've listened to a bunch of your episodes in preparation for this. And I will continue listening because now I understand what your show is truly all about. And, you know, just keep doing what you're doing. I appreciate you, you being in this in this space. You're raising the bar for all those people that are that are coming in now.

Rennie Gabriel  18:52
Thank you, Doug. Thank you so much. And to my listeners, thank you for tuning in. Next week, we'll have Steve Hoffman, who is the Chairman and CEO of Founders Space, a global innovation hub for entrepreneurs and a venture investor. You can listen to the Wealth On Any Income Podcast on your favorite platform. And please rate, review and subscribe. And if you'd like to know how books, movies and Society programs you to be poor, and what the cure is, then log on to wealthonanyincome.com/TEDx. You'll hear my TEDx talk and can request a free 27-page Roadmap to Complete Financial Choice® and philanthropy. And receive a weekly email with tips, techniques, or inspiration around your business or money. And if you'd like to see how you can increase your wealth, and donate to the causes that touch your heart, please check out our affordable program Wealth with Purpose, on the wealthonanyincome.com website. Until next week, be prosperous. Bye bye for now.

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